This is Keith, and this is Ben, and this is Main Street Lutherans. This is an episode that. Well, I'll tell you, we've had some really great episodes. I enjoy listening to this show myself, and we've had some great ones. And I'll tell you, our guest today is the Presiding Bishop of the elca, Yahael Curry. He has joined us to talk about what it means to have a calling. And I think this is going to be revelatory for all of us. It was an amazing conversation and we're really excited to share this with you. But of course, we have our. A segment, our opening piece here, and we thought, let's talk about what presiding means. Me, as a licensed lay minister, I am authorized to preside at church services. Right. So I can go and I can preside over Holy Communion. But then we have the Presiding Bishop.

But he doesn't preside over Holy Communion very often.

No. Well, he does, you know, in some of the big things. Right?

Yeah.

But the kind of question is, does he always preside? Is that. Is he all time presider?

Right. Because he's got the title in the. In the title.

So what do you think about that? Yeah, it's.

It's funny. We, we, before we started recording, we were chatting about how, you know, we often talk about someone who presides over something like a court case in the church or.

Like a court case.

Yeah. Right. So. So the judge presides over the court. So it's, it's almost a. There's like a legal sense when you preside over a meeting, preside over a court, or over a trial. And then in the church, there's this sort of sacramental sense where you're presiding at the table or presiding at the font, you know, presiding over the sacraments. And yet the presiding bishop title seems to point more towards the legal aspect, you know, as the head of the church, than the liturgical role.

So.

And just. I thought that was quirky.

Well, and when we talk about the Presiding Bishop of the lca, that is the bishop that is over the entire denomination. So it is churchwide. The Presiding Bishop has a prominent role in churchwide assembly and other churchwide events. And so that's a distinction. A synod bishop does not have that level. It is also not called a presiding Bishop. We don't have presiding bishop. A synod.

Yeah. And I guess in interdenominational or ecumenical settings, Bishop Currier would be referred to as our prelate. He is the top ranking clergy person in the entire denomination. So he's the equivalent of the Archbishop of Canterbury for the Church of England or the Pope for the Catholic Church. Even though I'm sure some people would laugh to think that A, Lutherans have a Pope and that B, the ELCA is big enough to merit anything like that.

Exactly. Well, so this conversation is absolutely amazing and we're really excited to share it with you. So here is our chat with Presiding Bishop Yahael Curry.

Well, Presiding Bishop Yahya Curry, we are honored and blessed to have you with us today on Main Street Lutherans. Thank you for taking time to join us.

Thank you. And thank you for saying my name correctly. I know whenever I'm out and about, people are curious about the pronunciation. I do pronounce it as Yahel. I often tell a story of a rabbi friend in Chicago with the same name and he pronounces his ya kel. So that H has a K sound and they go to that second vowel versus the first, which is how we get that yahel. So I pronounce it as Yahel. So thank you.

All right. Thank you. Welcome.

Well, it's so great to have you here. I guess what we want to start with is sort of what is the role of the Presiding Bishop? We haven't ever had a Presiding Bishop on. You'd think there was only one.

Well, I will say this. Once you find out, please tell me

that's entirely fair.

I think at its core, what people want to know is the role and how does the day to day live. We know our constitution speaks to various aspects of the Presiding Bishop, but on a day to day basis, there is this focus on our global witness and how in many aspects the Presiding Bishop is representing the elca not only domestically, but globally. And there is this structure that allows us to have staff and leaders in place to help us be able to accompany and walk alongside our senates in our congregations through our church wide structure. And while that is oftentimes seen as the role of the Presiding Bishop, in fairness, there is a lot of gifted staff people who help with this process to help walk alongside our senate, our congregations. And so yeah, I hope that's helpful.

It is. Keith likes to use walk alongside. That's one of his favorite definitions of Synod. And so, yeah, we've talked about that quite a bit on the show. So when we had the opportunity to speak with you, when I learned about this, my immediate thought and part of it was because of my candidacy process myself is about call because you are. I don't think it's unique, but as far as people that sort of stick out that are known to more people. You've experienced a series of calls, public calls, first as a pastor, then as a bishop, then as the chair of the conference of Bishops, and then as the churchwide presiding bishop. And all of those took a personal call within you, you know, we acknowledge, but also a call of your community, you know, whether it is your, your congregation or the, the people of your synod or the, the other bishops and eventually the entire church through, through the churchwide assembly. And so I want to speak with you about that or have you speak to that experience, maybe with the idea that folks might be experiencing calls to do different things in the world, whether it's ministry or other things, and maybe get a glimpse of what that looks like in real life.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Ben. I think we often talk about something called the three legged stool when you're early in candidacy. That is the call of the individual, the call of a congregation, and the call of the senate or churchwide office, depending on who's doing the calling at that time. I started in a way that, where one of, or two of the legs of the stool were kind of together. And so I started in a mission community that during that time, one of the ways you formed a new mission outpost was the senate would give permission for a community to gather. And as they were gathering and they were relating back to the senate office, if that community began to have a life and was showing signs that it was becoming more than a community that was gathering occasionally and that they had the potential to be a congregation, then the organization side would happen where you do a 501C3 and things like that. So when I first came to a ministry called Shekinah Chapel, I thought they were a church, but they were in the beginning stages of a mission. And I fell in love and I joined and my family joined. Fast forward that story a little bit. The person who they had identified as the mission developer decided to take on another opportunity and ended up leaving. And I was asked if I would be the mission developer. I didn't know what that was. And one of the reasons that I was being asked is because people within the senate did their own due diligence in the community and they had lifted my name up. And so this is one of the first examples where people are lifting my name up. And I'm not really understanding that this is part of the call. This is part of that three legged stool that I talked about. I was a teacher at the time and I was leading some ministries with youth and with some adults. And so I was really active in this ministry. And. And so that's one of the reasons I believe that there was this synergy around myself as maybe being the replacement. But I didn't see myself as a pastor. I just really did. I felt called to this ministry. But once I entered into the candidacy and started going to the seminary and started having different conversations, then it was really clear to me that something more was at stake. The more I got ingrained into the classes at the Lutheran School of Theology, the more I learned about our Lutheran theology, the more I began to feel this tug. And the tug was having me spend more and more time in the ministry than I was in other parts of my life. Because when I started, I was bi vocational. And so pretty soon what ended up happening is we grew and we had to make a decision about what was next. And we all decided that we were ready to be a congregation within the Metropolitan Chicago Senate. And as I looked back, I could clearly see the call. But I gotta tell you, I was just somebody who was just looking forward to opportunities to preach, looking forward to opportunities to walk alongside other people. I was a big recruiter for the ministry. I just. Yeah, looking back, it's just really, really evident. But I struggled. I struggled because I thought saying yes meant that I had to be someone different. And I was super excited that that wasn't the case, that God was calling me as I was and the church was calling me as I was.

And so, yeah, sir, could you say just.

Just a couple of context details, like, you know, how large was the community when you. When you encountered it? And like, you know, what size was this group of people that were lifting up your name and potential in ministry and roughly how long ago?

Yeah, so I first started visiting this community in 1998. And you should know that when I started visiting, it wasn't really a desire at that time to be a congregation. This was an aftercare ministry for a group of kids who were going to camp. And we learned that these kids weren't worshiping anywhere else, and they were coming from all over metro Chicago. Some were associated with the Lutheran Church, some had no church at all. But if you Fast forward to 2005 is when I was asked if I would leave when the person who they thought would be the mission developer left. Now, just before 2005, this group had grown to about 200 people. And after the leader left, there were about 20 of us who were still kind of hanging around and still trying to help with this aftercare program. So when I started, it was 15 to 20 of us. In 2007, when I became lay mission developer, the bishop at the time, Paul Landau, had kind of challenged us because Bishop Landau believed in what we were doing, but wasn't having a second term, wasn't standing for a second term, and so just challenged us to get up to average worshiping community of 75 people. I think it was something like 50 families. And so we had actually reached that in 2006. And so within a year, this group of 20 was worshiping back up to about 75. In 2007, when I became lay mission developer, we were about 150. And I think what made us so unique was the average age at that time was probably somewhere around 25. We were a lot. A lot of young adults, a lot of young families. And so that's what made it pretty unique. I enrolled in the I beat. I was in the team program on the track for ordination. In 2009, I was ordained, which meant that I had satisfied the team requirements that had been set out with the Senate and the candidacy program. In 2012, the ministry I was leading became official congregation of the Metropolitan Chicago senate. And in 2012, I think our average worship attendance was closer to about 2002013 because I had stayed. I stayed at LSTC. After I finished my requirements, I became. I received my master's of divinity degree. I think the best part about this call story that I really love is somewhere around 2018, the. The ministry came up off of. Ministry came off of mission support. And so we were always a bi. Vocational model. And I came in and I started leading. I was full time, but the goal was to put us in a position where there would be a model where we could continually thrive. And so since 2018 or 2019 at the latest, that ministry has no longer been on mission support. Wow.

Now, do you consider that your home congregation still?

No, no. Yes and no. It's. It's one of those weird, odd moments where you're the founder and that so many of my family members. I'm. I'm a product of Chicago, and so I have a large family, so a large amount of my family are still members of the church. And so I found myself going different places. But, yes, it's still seen as my home church. It's really a difficult. I'm not able to be there as much as I have been in the past. But yes.

Yeah, well. And you know, tradition says that if a pastor leaves a congregation, they can't come back.

Right.

You got to move on and stay separate. I don't know if that's true for bishops. So I, I guess bishops get to make the rules. So

to some extent, yeah, where we are relocating versus where the, the ministry is, it makes it really, really difficult. And I think what I'm really speaking about is where my heart is. And so I haven't officially joined another congregation at this time. For one, you're just traveling almost every weekend. And so probably five, six months at a time, you go before you can say hello or stop in on and check in on, on those who you help to cultivate through leadership development. But yeah, what I'm really speaking about is just, it's just like, like many pastors, that's just where my heart is. And I wish I could be there every week, but. But I can't and it wouldn't be appropriate.

Well, and I'll tell you, you make all the rest of us want to go there. So. So next time in Chicago, that's where I'm headed. Yeah.

What's the next, what is the next, like, step of call in your story then?

Yeah. So I think what makes this focus on call important is even as I'm thinking about it, it's an emotional piece. I was so focused on that ministry that people began to take notice because again, my focus on bivocationality, which meant that I lifted up a lot of lay leaders. And so we were known as that ministry that was heavily investing in leadership development. So as a result of that, I had traveled not only throughout the Senate, but throughout the elca, speaking a lot to young adults opportunities and lay opportunities. And without knowing it, I guess people started learning about me, the ministry. While I thought I was being very tunnel focused on this ministry that was in this impoverished area, we were also sharing what we were doing and assisting others. So in 2019, when I got a call to say my name was one of the six that was lifted up in the pre canvas process for the Metropolitan Chicago Senate for Bishop. I was shocked. But. But then I asked the next question, which was how many votes are we talking? And someone said, four votes. I said, out of how many? And they said, a couple hundred. I said, okay, there's no chance. Well, yes, I'll say yes to the process as a way of sharing again with the Senate the work that we were doing.

That's similar to what Imran told us when he was put up to be vice president, because he said, I want to just have the opportunity to speak to, in this case, churchwide assembly. But I think even as a vice president in the Southeast Senate. That's sort of what led him to do that, was just to have the opportunity to say something to everybody, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I thought I'd be lifting that up. And then, I gotta be honest, a part of me said, well, if I'm successful, who's ever bishop will maybe they'll look at me at joining their staff or something. That's what I was thinking. And that process was just. It was so emotional because I hadn't planned, I hadn't thought about, what if you're wrong? What if you're it? And I remember that Saturday, having to go through the mental reality that that next day I had to go to the church and say, I'm leaving now. That's 20 years embedded in a place. I had at least 40 family members who, who are members. So, yeah, it became really emotional, but clearly I was being called and I didn't realize it, to the, to the office of Bishop for the Metropolitan Chicago Senate. And because this story continues, I'll just say with the Presiding Bishop, I'll come back to the Conference of Bishops that I heard you talk about earlier. But only when I was elected Presiding Bishop was I afforded the opportunity to look back at my time as the Metropolitan Chicago Senate Bishop. And you know what? It was way more healthier than I ever realized. I think myself, and I'm sure there's others, we get so immersed in the moment that this senate cared for me. They gave me an opportunity. My style was a little bit different, but I really felt like they had my back. I don't think I ever said that, but when I look back, not only is it clear to me that I was being called to that office, but I took my work real serious. I learned the work, and I tried to be as innovative as I can as I could be. And I was listening, but it was really a healthy call. And I just wish I could have been more present and recognize that. When I was serving in 2024, I was. I was elected to be the chair, and someone asked me about it, and I said, absolutely not. You know, and. And then I looked up and, you know, there was some significant votes in the first round, and I just thought, like, do they. Would they really. I think that was so meaningful to me because these are my peers. These are people who I relate to. These are people I call when I, When I'm stuck. And I, I, I need an answer or I can't figure out something. And so I, I was honored and blown away by the opportunity to serve in that Way.

So terms for bishops are six years.

Yes.

What is the term, if you will, for the chair for the Conference of Bishops?

So they've recently moved to a three year term. I think when I was elected at the time, it was a four year term. And I think it was stipulated at that time that if whenever there's a vacancy that, that then the vice chair would come, would, would take over.

Okay.

So, so there, there, there are processes that we follow within the Conference of Bishops, but I think I was elected to a four year term in 2024.

And how long had you been a bishop at that time?

Since 2019.

Okay.

And I want you to know that, you know, during that time we, we are starting to see this change in the Conference of bishops in 2023. I believe if you take into account the full Conference of Bishops, that includes the Presiding Bishop as well as the secretary. Both at the time were leaders who just happened to be Women. As of 2023, the Conference of Bishops was majority women. And so what, what started to happen was this, this changeover within the conference. And so where, when I started, the average years was maybe 12, at least in Region 5. Now we're becoming newer and newer. And so to hear your question versus the reality of how we were changing, me only being there for about four years, it is a lot more plausible today than maybe it would have been 20 years ago with such long. With the, when the longevity was different.

Well, Keith and I knew really well. Well, I knew really well. And Keith went through candidacy with, with Bishop Sauer in Southern Ohio, who had a reputation, but he was, he was the chair of the Conference of Bishops back in the, what is that, early 90s. So. Okay, so very different from back then.

Yeah.

And actually you're very different than he was.

Yeah, well, actually by the time I had been in candidacy for about a year, that's when Cal Holloway was elected.

Okay. Yeah, very familiar with Cal.

So he's. Yeah. And I'd only because I grew up in Pennsylvania, but went to college in Ohio and joined a congregation there and then considered entering into candidacy. You know, I was going, I was going through candidacy in Ohio, even though in, in some ways where I'm at now in York County, Pennsylvania is more like home.

So then

you're elected to serve as chair of the Conference of Bishops. And had you yet come to the end of your first term as bishop before being called as Presiding Bishop?

Yes, and so that, that may almost 30, 60 days prior to being elected as Presiding Bishop. I had just been re. Elected in The Metropolitan Chicago Senate. And I just got to tell you, I was so relieved. I was so excited. I had a saying. My saying was the Metropolitan Chicago Senate owes me two years of fun. Right. Because people used to talk about the office in a way and they are you having fun yet or. But when I was elected in 2019, in September, six months later was the pandemic.

Right.

Congratulations.

Yes. And so you know, you go to 2022 and things are just now starting to, at least we're gathering again. And so 2024, you're preparing for this process again. So I said before, I said yes, I didn't know if I could do this job. Now I know I can do this job. And so I really want to stand for re election because I want another opportunity and you guys owe me two years of fun. I just felt like we were just always transitioning and adjusting during that time. So yes, I was, I was re elected in May and then in July was the presiding Bishop. The churchwide assembly for the presiding Bishop.

So it's like you'd only gotten to serve six years of your first four year term.

And so, so to continue the call story out and with. It was a difficult time in July and this is me just being a little bit more vulnerable. My mom, I had just did a one way ticket two days before we arrived in Arizona for my mom to go to Chicago from Texas. And my mom had breast cancer and she was asking, I mean, lung cancer, I'm sorry, lung cancer. And she was asking the family to just keep it amongst ourselves. My mom worked on the campus of Northern Illinois University. There's so many students who call her mom and she just, she wanted to keep it private but she had shared with me that she was stopping treatment and she wanted me to get her a ticket and I did and she. So I arrived just emotionally exhausted. Sure. And so I had always known my wife was there, my family was there because my birthday was July 26th and my daughter's birthday was July 27th. So we got there a couple days early to celebrate our birthdays before we would go to church wide assembly. So we did that and the girls that left and I talked with my wife and I said like, you know, if by any chance my name is lifted up, you know, I'm just gonna pull out. It's just, it's just too much going on. But there were 83 votes and that was just too many. It was just too many. And so we prayed about it and, and I decided to leave my name in thinking, well you know, yeah, so I left my name. And the reason I'm bringing this story up is when we get to the end and in the end of the process and I mean, I served with some wonderful people that were wonderful people in the process and. But after the election, I get home and my mom asks for a one way ticket back to Texas. She said, I want to live long enough to see you install. And so we did that and it caused a lot of tension because she had already told the family when she arrived that she wasn't going back. So my mom goes back, resumes treatment. Fast forward to the installation. My mom got to watch it on television with family who was there with her. And my mom transitioned. I think it was three or four days after the installation. And so when we talk about call and we talk about these multi level processes, you know, it'll always be emotional peace for me because I know I made the right decision just the way things unfolded. I'm super glad I left my name in it. Gave my mom something just to live for and fight for just a little while longer. And for that I'm truly grateful, truly grateful for that time and that experience.

That's a beautiful story.

Thank you.

Thank you for reminding us that bishops and presiding bishops are people and that they have people and that those people have you. Can I ask again, just a detail question? Calls and transitions in calls often involve relocating. Did you move when you left Shekinah Chapel to become bishop of metro Chicago? Did you have to move your family?

Well, this is one of those stories that whenever I'm talking about it around other bishops who have had a lot of transition, they give me the look because I've managed to stay in Chicago the entire time. Now, the goal or the plan, and you guys will remember this, when I was elected bishop in Metro Chicago, I wanted to move closer because the drive in was about 50 minutes from my home on the southeast side to where the Senate office was. But after the pandemic, the market, the housing market was unbelievable. It felt like every time we bid it on something, we would be outbidded or something wasn't available. And we made the mistake of inviting our children back home so that they could take over the house. So not only can we not find a home, but the kids are back, So

at least charging them rent or something.

I wish, I wish I was, I wish I had been a little bit more forward thinking. And so now, and remember I was complaining about that 50 minute ride, but now, because I've yet to transition, we, we think we're really close to, to, to finding a place to stay that's further north. But now my commute is more like an hour and a half. Right.

Yeah.

But, yes, any day now, I'll be. Will be moving further north and we will leave my. It's only one child left here in the house, and we will leave her in the house as we planned. We're picking up from 2019. So. Yeah, thank you for the question. No, I haven't really had to do much transition.

All right.

But that wasn't, that wasn't part of the selling point. When you talked to Churchwide, to the, the assembly, he didn't say, hey, you're not going to have to pay relocation fees.

Yeah, no, that wasn't.

You know, I, I pushed that here at St. Matthew when I went from being the associate pastor to being the lead pastor. It's like, you know, I'll even move my office by myself.

And he did. He took vacation days to do it. He did.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Very committed.

That is not an example for everybody else. Let's just make that clear. Right. So I guess I was right. I guess your call, this whole call process for you is just an inspiring story and I hope a lot of people get a lot out of it. But now you're in the office and I'm sure that what you're thinking about now is what is the church. What is the church called to in this time and place? Our, our Senate assembly in Southeast Michigan was for such a time as this, that was our theme. And we, and we used Esther. Right. And so, so we, we talked about that a lot this past weekend. And so have you come to any conclusions as to what our church, the elca, is called to in this time and place?

Yeah, that's really. I love the question, and I spent a great deal of time on it wondering, what is it that I'm being asked to do? And early on, I, I had made a determination that vision, statements and goals should be lifted up by the body. Right. And. And that we don't mind supporting what we help to create. And so I then began to go to the ELCA webpage and just look for things. What is it that we as a church said that we wanted to do? And how might I be able to emphasize it? And so as a part of the Future Church, 2025, way back in 2017, 2018, there was this process of lifting up these priorities. And these priorities for the church have gone from 10 to five to three. But when I noticed them, there were three priorities. And one of them was to, to be a, a diverse church. New, young, diverse, right? And so that was the last priority that had been lifted up. But I saw the third one that, that just spoke to me. It says, we will be a connecting church, a sustaining church, raising the bar together. And if, if, if people know me or they've seen me throughout the various calls, I like a simple message. I like a message that can unfold over a series of years. And so I was looking at this third priority and it just hit me like, what if we broke this priority down into three segments? What if we could focus on connection and then we could focus on sustainability, and then we could focus on what it means to raise the bar together. And so in 2026, all I've spoken about is connection. Our connection as a church, our connection with our adjacent organizations and institutions, our connections with senates and congregations. In 2027, the focus will be sustainability. And too often when we hear that term, we think about governance, we think about reduction. But sustainability for me is also about the care for creation. It's also about leadership development. It's also about how are we changing with the church. So we will look at governance and we will look at reductions, but we'll also look at how are we helping to sustain our planet, how are we helping to sustain our leadership. The big change with our priority will come in 2028. As I was thinking about how might we raise the bar together, occurred to me that 2028 will be another churchwide assembly. And we have already agreed that at that assembly we would start preparing congregations for the 500 year anniversary of the Augsburg Confession, which is in 2030. But we would spend the year 2028 in preparation for that. And so because it's a churchwide assembly year, I said, like, that's going to get a lot of attention. And so whatever we're pushing for churchwide assembly has to be connected with these focus areas, like connecting and sustaining. And then I learned that in 2029 is the 450th anniversary of the Large and Small Catechism. So it just hit me like, okay, instead of raising the bar together, we'll be reforming together. Because a lot of that has to do with reformation going back, but also seeing a way forward. How could we focus on catechesis in the year 2028? So instead of raising the bar together, the three years together is now connecting, sustaining and reforming. And so that's what I think we're being called to. And this isn't something that I lifted up. This is what we, as the church, have said over and over again since we unveiled the Future Church 2025, way back in 2018. So these are some of those priorities that have been combined together. And so I feel really good about it because this isn't what me saying, here's what I think we should do. This is me saying, let's focus on one of the things that we as a church have already agreed to do.

Thank you. You're answering questions that were just raised by the last meeting I had before we sat down to record this, which was about our annual stewardship campaign. So I appreciate that.

No problem.

He's written this down. He's going to call president right after this and say, this is what I was told.

Well, we'll be releasing communication statements, and you'll start to get a lot of information. What I'm learning is that people are appreciative by me sharing what the goal will. What the focus will be for the next three years. I'm someone who's always thought like it a year or two ahead of time. I'm trying to think and use that theme as the lens for how I see the world. And so we've decided that we will release some communication documents that relates to these three themes. And so people should be inundated with information and how they might be able to utilize it within their congregations or their sentence.

So I think I want to come back to that after a minute, but, but so that I stay on this. This track of, you know, what is. What is the church the elca, called to as. As the presiding bishop, you enter this group of other bishops and leaders of denominations in the United States and globally. Do you have a sense of what is. Is there anything specific that the global church is called to do in this time and place?

Yeah.

Or is this a whole other episode?

No, no. So. So my pause is this. I mean, when you. You lift this up. I think about in January, my ability to visit the Lutheran Church of Jordan and Holy D for the installation of Bishop Ahmad Haddad, and when I got there, to the representation of our global Lutheran witness from around the world. Marching from Jaffa Gate with the new bishop. And words don't. Don't say much. But what I need us to know is that we have a global connection, a global witness, and our siblings depend on us to be present. I thought about the opportunity to go to South Africa in December of last year for their jubilee for the Evangelical Lutheran Church of South Africa. Next week, I'll be joining I don't know if they call them delegates or members, but for the Lutheran World Federation, where we will be making decisions about who we are and who we're called to be and how we will continue to show up for one another. And so right now, at this moment, in my newness, what I would say to you is, I'm coming to learn that we have amazing impact, but also opportunity on a global scale, on a global stage, to show up for one another and to share with them how the Holy Spirit is stirring here in our part of the world. And I'm eager to learn from my siblings. I'm eager to learn what it is that they are doing, and I'm eager to hear how we might continue to journey together.

Yeah, I just have to point out that we actually got to interview Pastor Ahmad Haddad a few months before he became bishop in. In that part of the world when

he was in Philadelphia receiving his doctoral degree. When he was. When he earned that. So, yeah, that was.

I was the ULS commencement speaker. One, one. One of their leaders. Just received his doctorate, doctorate from uls. And, you know, I was the commencement speaker and I received an honorary doctor, doctorate, degree of divinity. But for someone to say, hey, I was just with you in the Holy

Land,

and we're sharing a meal together, knowing what's happening over there.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, relationships matter. We have amazing opportunity before us. And so, yeah, I'm just. I'm just encouraged by. By those kind of instances. So thank you for lifting it up.

Yeah. So going back to that, that idea of connection, you. The day we're talking, I saw a. A press release or the elca, since you're not on social media, you wouldn't see this, but you may not know that you wrote a document to share about messages that are going to go out monthly to communicate with everybody. Even the people that don't like us so much, they get to see it, too. Do you want to talk about what you're going to talk about with that?

I've tried to be really attentive. Part of the connection is, is to also make sure people know that, you know, I'm listening, I'm learning. And people have taken advantage of various communication avenues to reach out, in some cases to say, hey, we spoke about this, but we didn't speak about this. Have you thought about this? And realizing that we just can't respond to everything, one of the things we had to decide was, can we develop a monthly time where we can just respond? And occasionally people may reach out to Us. And it could be information that inspire us for one of our monthly communication letters. And so it's an opportunity for me to share that I'm listening. And in some cases, we aren't all agreeing on the same thing. We have different contexts. We have different ways that we would want to see the churchwide organization be present or not present. And how do we sit in the tension of all of that? How do we sit in the tension of it, speak to it and say, we still family. I'm gonna do my best to make sure that once a month we are communicating in a way that is scripturally focused, that lifts up our values. But occasionally we also get to sit in attention of events that are happening in the world where in some cases we don't all agree. So that's the purpose of it, Ben, is to make sure that people know I will respond or that if something didn't come out this week or next week, that every month you will definitely hear from me.

And we'll have a link to that in the episode notes, so folks can go and visit that.

Thank you.

And I really appreciate that.

Absolutely.

So are those all going? I think this first one for June 1st was. Was written. It was. Is that the intention? They're all going to be written or.

Yeah, the goal is that they all are written. But, you know, maybe someone makes a recommendation for a video or something like that. But I want people to know that we are paying attention and there will be a response. Sometimes if something happens and there's not a response, it's not about being silent sometimes it's just about making sure that we have the opportunity to do it in a way that is respectful, but also provides the time I need to be able to. To gather the information to. In order to respond. So I just don't want people to think that I'm not hearing them. And so if they know that they'll get a monthly response. Yeah, it provides that. That opportunity for them. It.

It seems to me to be a very pastoral act from the role of bishop and presiding bishop.

So thank you. I just, I don't want to take all the credit. The people who have reached out. I am responding to what I've heard and I'm grateful when people reach out and say, have you thought about this? Or maybe if we knew that we hear from you regularly, that that'll be a way to communicate. And so I don't know where it initially started, but if I remember correctly, this is me responding to some recommendations that came from you, the community well,

and I've just been in a couple of conversations in the last few days where people have said things like, you know, whether we're talking about at a national level or in our own congregation or our own neighborhood or community or even our own family, just being able to find ways to talk to each other respectfully, openly, vulnerably, honestly. And, you know, we're not going to agree, and that's not the point. But if we can communicate, we may begin to understand. And sometimes that's even more important than agreeing.

I agree. Thank you. I do want to just acknowledge how we got here. My job is to try and be present. But we say yes a lot. But oftentimes we get to say yes because someone just was thoughtful enough to ask.

Standing in line at the buffet line or wherever. Keith met you.

And I remember when I, you know, people always think I'm putting them off. And it's. It's always funny to me because it's just our process to make sure we want to be talking to those who are doing this kind of work. And so, yeah, I just applaud you again, Keith, for saying, you know, would you be interested? And that's normally the way it happens. So thank you.

That's empowering to me, too. You know, I'm transitioning in calls as well, and still, you know, learning what it means to be a lead pastor. And so thank you for that affirmation. I appreciate it. Bishop Kerr, once again, thank you so much for taking time to be with us and sharing your story. It's been enlightening and encouraging to me to put a very human face and voice on the role of Presiding Bishop and on your occupation of that office right now. It's just been a wonderful opportunity, and I'm sure that our listeners are going to appreciate it and continue to lift you up and pray, prayer and thanksgiving for the good work that you are doing for the church. So thank you for being with us.

Thank you, Keith and Ben. I really appreciate it.

See, I told you this was a fabulous interview. I am so impressed with our church. Presiding Bishop Yahael Curry is. Met every expectation I have. I love his answers to these things, and I look forward to reading his monthly articles about our Church and where we are together.

Yeah, yeah. It seems like a small step, and yet, you know, we've not had that opportunity before. So I'm looking forward to seeing where that conversation, where those conversations might go.

Absolutely. So we had this thing that we were doing better know a congregation and we have another congregation to get to know.

Submission.

That's right. So this is King of Glory Lutheran Church in Dallas, Texas. It seems to me that they are one of the largest ELCA churches in the Dallas area. They are in the North Texas Northern Louisiana Synod. That is the fight in 4D of the ELCA. They have quite a roster of pastors, deacons, staff. So their lead pastor is Kenny Dixon. He's the senior pastor. Kirsten Wee is the associate pastor. And they have a director of family and youth ministries, and they have a director of music and communications and marketing. And they have an executive church administrator. And then they say plus seven other support staff, including lots of other things, and an IT and media coordinator. And so it's really great to hear this. I will tell you that this was submitted by committee. King of Glory has a call committee put together for filling their senior pastor role next year. And so they wanted to let lots of people know about their congregation so that as they do that search process, which is probably just getting started for that. And they're starting well in advance of most folks, but this is a chance for them to get that.

He's retiring. That's right.

And good. Good luck to him.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

The congregation has a very impressive website. You can look it [email protected] In 2025, they had 954 members on their roster. And the programs that they say they are proud of and they've listed several, are their faith formation program, which includes a full children's curriculum, youth ministry and programming, and faith formation for adults. They have music and worship programming, outreach ministries. They entitle things such as Martin's Music Cafe, Isaac's Comedy Club, and Gusto, which is like a lunch and learn kind of conversation opportunity. They've got a number of different small groups and they have some sporting activities as well, including pickleball.

That's right. Their worship times. So they have in person and online. Their reported attendance is 223 on Site A Sunday or per week. And they have 100 average attendance online. And so that's kind of impressive. That's a lot of. A lot of folks out there. So their service is Sunday at 10:15, and it's central. We're in Dallas, so It's all central time. So if you want to tune in online to see what they do there, which I probably will do here soon when I'm not somewhere. Well, I'll watch them online, I'll watch them later. The traditional worship service most weeks, but the third Sunday of each month they have a community worship which has more contemporary vibes to it. At five o' clock on Sundays, still Central time. They have a joyful spirit, 30 minute disability friendly environment, workshop or worship. They also have, they have a sensory room as part of their sanctuary where folks who can't stay still for a long period can go into that room to sort of decompress and get away from the loud noises of that. Usually we would, you know, we'd call that like a cry room or something like that when we refer to kids. But I think it's a good use to make that available to folks with sensory issues, people who are more neurodivergent. I think that's a wonderfully welcoming way to repurpose those rooms.

Absolutely. Their favorite hymn according to the report is Our Mighty Fortress is Our God.

I bet it's the Lost and found version, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Who doesn't love some acoustic grunge?

That's right.

Their mascot, if they had one, would be the Glory lion which they would consider a symbol of kingship and strength. There's a biblical tie in there with the lion of Judah. And this mascot they feel would be friendly, noble and welcoming.

We ask everyone what does everyone else need to know about your congregation? And they said that they live out three grace driven values as God's grace filled people. We invite all to experience the joy of being grounded in love, growing in faith and generous in service and giving. And also they wanted to remind us that they are not midst of a senior pastor call process since their, their lead pastor will be retiring in the summer of 2027 and they put in parentheses or earlier. We hope that, that, that Pastor Dixon is able to stay with them as, as best everybody is, is prepared for and we hope them the best in that call process. We do want to say, say we don't want to get in the middle of any of these things. We don't want to recruit anybody there. But, but if you submit your, your congregation, we'll certainly talk about it. It's always, it's always an important transition there. But we must remind everyone that when you enter the call process as a congregation, stick with your synod. They know what they're doing and they wouldn't like for us to get in the middle of any of this stuff. So make sure to follow the proper process as the pastors know what what that process is and trust it. We do this all for a reason. We've talked about that a couple times, I think in the podcast.

Absolutely right. Main Street Lutherans is hosted by Keith Fair and Ben Folk. The show is produced by Folk Media Productions. You can find all of our contact information, links and a transcript in the episode notes. Till next time, go in peace, serve the Lord.

Thanks be to God.